I met with Kirk Watson in his offices in the historic Littlefield Building in the heart of downtown Austin. Although we were on the 7th floor, the noises of the downtown traffic, the bain of Austin, could be clearly heard throughout our interview. This prompted one of my first questions which concerned the various road closures which were scheduled due to President Clinton's visit to River City that afternoon. I mentioned that one of the hot topics on the radio that morning was "What is the rush hour traffic going to be like this afternoon?" His reply, "Some people can always find something negative." When scheduling this interview, Watson's Legal Assistant, Irma Prado, had informed me that Fridays were "law days" meaning that he set aside that day of the week to focus on his law practice. I was already aware that after meeting with me, he had appointments with clients and had other legal-related matters scheduled before he was to greet the President at the airport at 4:45 p.m. When asked about meeting with the President, Watson told me that he was to meet him on the tarmac at the new Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (more on the new airport later) and ride with him to the fundraiser [held at the West Austin home of Roy Spence of GSD&M Advertising]. He then had to leave to give the commencement address at the Austin Community College graduation on the topic of "Balancing Your Life and Getting Involved in the Community" before returning to the dinner. So, needless to say, Watson, Mayor and lawyer, had a busy day in store.
As we began our discussion with Kirk the Mayor, I asked him about being voted "Best Texas Mayor" by Texas Monthly Biz magazine. In case you are unaware, as its name suggests, this is a new effort by the publishers of Texas Monthly which focuses on business in Texas. "They gave me an award for being the best Mayor in Texas for business which was awfully nice," was Watson's response when asked about the award. As Austin has been known in the past more for being environmentally sensitive that business-oriented, I asked him if he found that to be a bit unusual. Watson answered by saying, "It is. One of the big points that they made was that it was unusual. One of the things I told people we would try to do while I was Mayor was get beyond the stale old fights where we had the de facto two-party system that said I can't talk to you if you're business. You can't talk to me if I'm environmentalist.' When, in fact, it could all be tied together. I think in the past two years we have had enormous success in that regard. We have really melded economics and environment. I think that is one of the things that's being recognized state-wide. While I've been Mayor, we've also been named by Fortune Magazine as the number one city for business. And, at the same time, the Texas Nature Conservancy gave me their award for environmental protection. That was one of the goals and, I'm pleased to say, we are achieving it."
If you have ever met Kirk, you know he is a young, good-looking man with a wonderful personality. It is easy to see how when working on the tough issues facing the city, or in dealing with (an adversary) across the table in a lawsuit, he can be extremely persuasive. Having watched him in the political arena over the past couple of years since his election and knowing that his opinion polls were high, I asked when he would be coming up for re-election. "May of next year," Watson stated. "It's a three-year term. I've not decided whether I'm running for re-election. I won't make that decision until after the 1st of the year." Curiosity getting the better of me, I asked if he had any higher political aspirations. "You know, there was probably a time when, if things were going as well as they are now and someone had asked me that, I would have had some sort of an answer," Watson replied. "I've enjoyed the speculation. It's very flattering. There's a rumor a week about what I'm going to be doing. The good news for me is I have a good law practice. I have partners that I really think the world of. We enjoy being up here. So, that's an easy place for me to go to if I decide that I don't want to run for re-election or do anything else. The other part of it is, as long as it's fun, as long as I enjoy it, then sure, I'll consider public service and I'll consider different avenues for public service. I mean by that, elected public service. But, if I quit having fun with it, or it becomes a burden, then I've got other options." "Or if you don't feel you are accomplishing your goals?" I interjected. "Yeah and I think that's when it wouldn't be fun. It would be a big sign of it not being fun. I mean there are times when it's not fun even when you are accomplishing your goals. I think that as long as we are moving in a positive direction and I'm enjoying it, then I will continue to seek an outlet for that."
Although I had many, many questions about being a politician in Austin, I figured I better cut to the chase and move on to "Kirk the Lawyer." I asked if he found it difficult to balance his mayoral duties with his law practice. "Yes and no," he said. "I never have enough time for anything and so that would be the yes' part of it. The no' part of it is we've set up a pretty good system here. We're pretty efficient in how we utilize my time and how I utilize my time. I'm taking depositions, I'm at hearings, I'm negotiating, I'm mediating, I'm doing the things we need to do. We've done that by being very cognizant of how we want to best utilize time. I think it's working. There are weeks we have to calibrate, but overall, I think it's working pretty well." With regard to handling his trial schedule, Watson said he just notified the City staff and cleared his schedule.
I asked how long his current paralegal, Irma Prado, had been with him. Laughing, Watson replied, "Too long. Golly, I don't know, for at least six years." I asked if he could rely on her to keep him on track with his cases? "Absolutely," he stated. "I rely on a paralegal almost like a paralegal/executive assistant. Something more than even a paralegal in terms of just the day-to-day....Not only the kind of things we traditionally think of paralegals doing....Preparing for and being with you at hearings, depositions or trials, but also with the schedule I'm trying to maintain, I have to have somebody that I can trust. [T]hey need know enough about the cases, enough about the way I want to practice, enough about what needs to get done that they can help me get through the maze of the day with a lot of things on my schedule and a lot of different demands."
When asked if he was at all familiar with the issue of licensing and regulation for paralegals, surprisingly, he was. When asked for his opinion, he stated, "I look at paralegals as professionals. [W]hether they need to go through some sort of licensing, I have not come to a conclusion on that. There is no question as I look upon...the paralegals...who work in this law firm, (that I expect them) to meet beyond what would be the basic requirements that you would expect to see in a professional. I am in a situation where if they're not professionals in the sense of the standards they are meeting, the way they go about their business, I wouldn't be able to balance and juggle all the balls that I'm able to juggle. So. If you talk about licensure from the standpoint of Is it important to create and maintain a profession?' I see a value there. If you talk about it just in a sense that "[W]e've got to make sure that everybody takes a test," then I'm not sure that I see the necessity of that."
I wanted his opinion on whether he felt that licensure, regulation, etc. of legal assistants could help in providing affordable legal services to the general public. "I think there is a role to be played there in helping the average consumer of legal services get legal services that they can afford and would not otherwise be able to obtain," Watson stated. "There are a couple of factors. One is the goal of affordable legal services for everybody and making sure people can get the legal services they need. [T]o some degree, I think the legal profession has worked itself into a problem area. The second goal is to make sure the consumer is protected and is getting affordable legal services. That, in fact, the services they are getting are of a quality that they deserve. [W]hat that would mean is if you are going to allow legal assistants to do certain types of things, then we need to make sure that there are standards met and that would be something that I would think more about...making sure we have licensing...basic standards...basic minimum requirements are met. The third issue that comes up to bat is the monopolistic concept about whether lawyers are going to want someone other than a lawyer doing certain types of activities. I've never gotten as worked up about that so long as there is protection of the public. I could see a bigger role to achieve that first goal...affordable services...so long as we make sure there is protection."
Two other concerns that I hear frequently regarding the licensure and regulation of legal assistants is that if this comes about, many would go out and "open their own shops" and that paralegal salaries would significantly increase. To this Watson had this answer: "Let me address the second one first. I've said there are three potentially conflicting goals...The issue then becomes What is it that paralegals are going to be allowed to do under the law?' The legal profession is the only profession where we are given by the people a basic monopoly over their system of justice. We are one of the branches of government. If people cannot get into their courthouse without a lawyer and then it probably has to be some sort of certified lawyer, some sort of specialist, it becomes quite expensive for them. One of the ways you could reduce those expenses, but yet protect them, is by allowing others, paralegals in this case, to do those things. I don't get as worked up about that. But, it would require some mechanism to assure that the public is being protected. If you say I'm worried about them opening up a shop' and you are only worried that it would take business from me, well, that's a little bit different thing. As long as you are protecting the public, I feel things will work out. I think people are still going to say Well, is there a lawyer around?' Because let's face it, it's like having a Physician's Assistant and a physician. There are things that you are going to want the Physician's Assistant doing, but at the same time, you want to make sure that the physician oversees some of that. I don't think I've ever bumped into anyone in the paralegal profession that does not recognize that." With regard to paralegal salaries, Watson said, "You know we are in a different world than we were just 10 years ago. We have an economy that cycles itself every 35 years because of the advances in technology. It is an economy that is a created economy. The technology allows people to do different things. So, we're demanding of paralegals that they have a lifetime of learning. We are demanding that they keep up with changes in the law. As I have just described it at the beginning of this, I am demanding of them that they not only keep up with the changes in the rules and changes in the law and be able to help me with that part of the practice, but manage the practice in a lot of ways. It doesn't bug me if you have to pay people as the economy cycles to assure that you are getting the quality, you are creating the positive reinforcement and incentives for the people to maintain that level of professionalism."
The Mayor told me that he supports CLE for legal assistants. "I frankly support that (and) campaigned on behalf of minimum continuing legal education for lawyers. I think that's an important thing. [W]e encourage our legal assistants to go to seminars. We pay for them to go. When the new rules came out, we even had a law firm retreat where we assigned different rules to different people, both lawyer and paralegal, to speak to the rest of the firm on those changes in the rules. That would be continuing legal education. It doesn't bug me to require professionals to have continuing legal education."
With the growing number of firms that are requiring either a four year degree or a paralegal certificate, I wanted to know his firm's hiring practices insofar as credentials and education. "You know that would be interesting to see...we are getting ready to hire a new paralegal. [W]e've talked about it. We don't have anything written down and we don't talk about a strict requirement. But, we like to have either a certain number of years of experience or some form of certificate. That does help us in evaluating potential folks. The good news here is that everyone of our paralegals have been with us or the lawyer they are working with for some time. To the point where everyone has a high level of trust and faith and confidence and certain requirements probably do not make a whole lot of sense. And I'll be honest with you, sitting here right now, I couldn't tell you who has certificates, who doesn't have certificates." He went on to say that in hiring a paralegal he would look for "First someone that had strong fundamentals. A: strong knowledge of the practice and that includes the rules and things of that nature....(T)hat it is one of those situations where if discovery comes in, or discovery is going out, they are already aware of the kinds of things that are required...so strong fundamental knowledge. B: would be...interpersonal skills. Ability to deal with clients and other paralegals and other lawyers. One of the things that we talked about earlier in terms of cost, I do billable and contingent fee work and there are things I think...the client would prefer to be just talking to the paralegal on than have me on the phone. So, it is very important that the person have interpersonal skills to be able to deal with these types of things. C: I would want somebody, frankly, and it probably gets back to interpersonal skills, that can deal with the firm. And that has two parts to it. 1: this place buzzes in terms of speed and how fast things are moving. Somebody needs to deal with that and handle the stress of all that. But the other part of that is, part of the reason that we set up this shop was we wanted to have an atmosphere where everybody had fun and we don't have a whole lot of fun practicing law. It is still a way of making a living, but it can be a lot more pleasant and that's what makes a difference. Then I guess the final thing, the D' to the whole thing is that I would want someone that cares about what it is they do. They need to see it as a profession in my view. [T]hey need to be wanting to do better everyday. Wanting to grow with the job. Otherwise, I think they become stagnant."
The books, movies and other forms of leisure activities often give you some insight into a person so I asked him about the last book he read. A little embarrassed, he told me, "The American Mayor. I'm sorry you asked me that, I wish I had something better to say. But, The American Mayor is a new book that has just come out that has done a study of the best and worst mayors over about a century and it's really fascinating."
The best book: "Lincoln at Gettysburg. It's the only book I've ever read that by the end of the first page, I thought I don't have enough time...to get as much read of this as I want.' It is a great book. It is a great book."
Worst experience with a paralegal? "One was just a personality I couldn't tolerate. It was being a trial situation with someone less organized than what I really needed. Not being able when I needed something, to pull it out. That's probably a failure on my part to be able to be aware of what I may need. And I'm willing to admit that. But the other one was lack of organizational skills. And probably a lack of experience for that one in particular where she just didn't have it all together for an important day in trial. And it may have been a lack of experience on her part about how things were used in a courtroom. It was a bad experience." I asked if he felt this was reflected in his verdict. He replied, "I'm not sure that anybody other than perhaps the judge was aware that I was not ready to do something that I thought I was ready to do. But, I'm not sure that anybody else was aware of it."
Best experience with a paralegal? "Well, I would say one of my best experiences was a matter...that Irma and I handled in front of an NCAA committee. [I]t was one of those things where presentation and cross examination and various examinations had been like clockwork. We had prepared very well, so going into it, she knew pretty much everything I was thinking and so anytime I needed something, she was a step ahead and it turned into one of those experiences in the practice of law that when it was over, (we thought) it just went almost exactly like we wanted. And it wouldn't have happened if I didn't have a good paralegal in there."
I probably should not have done it, but he had been so amiable that I wanted to see. if thrown a curve, he would remain so. "I was talking to an attorney the other day and I mentioned I was going to be interviewing you. I said I thought it would be an enjoyable experience and she said he's very nice and he's very professional, but, if you are on the other side of a case, he's mean.' What would you say to that?"
"I would say, I sure wish I could get her on the other side of (another) case, because I think we must have had an experience that was out of the ordinary. I feel very comfortable that I'm going to represent my client well. [S]ome people may perceive that as mean. I also feel very comfortable that the great majority of cases I've had with other lawyers have resulted in strong relationships with those other lawyers. I have strong friends that I have gone to the well with a whole bunch on the other side of cases. So, perhaps there was an experience that just wasn't what we had hoped for in that case. I would hope that would be the aberration. If, by that she means something negative and it sure sounds like she does." "Actually," I told him, " it was made as an off the cuff comment. She may have meant that you are tough." After just a moment to consider, Watson stated "Yeah, and if that's what she meant, I try to be tough but in a way where it's not personal and we walk away friends. This job...the practice of law has become far too combative. I don't mind combat, in fact, I enjoy it. But it shouldn't be something that prevents the development of personal relationships between the folks that are in combat. I don't like people that are mean for the sake of being mean. Or mean because they are insecure about what the other guy may be trying to do or chicken, and that's half a word, in the way they do their business. And I work real hard at that. If...I failed and it comes across mean or chicken, then that is a personal failure on my part and one I where I would be dissatisfied with myself."
I know many legal professionals are in an out of Austin quite frequently, so as my last question I asked if we were going to find the new Austin-Bergstrom International Airport to be a good experience. Watson stated that the new airport is much nicer than the Robert Mueller facility. Knowing that there is only one turn lane into the airport off extremely busy Highway 71, I again mentioned the traffic. He informed me that when Bergstrom was operating as an air force base that they estimated that there were 26,000 vehicles in and out each day and there did not seem to be any great problems. It is anticipated that with the conversion to commercial, the estimate rises by about 10,000 vehicles per day. I know that there are studies being performed, or have been performed, to determine what needs to be done in the way of relieving some of the traffic headaches. From my perspective in having been a long-time Austin resident, if you have ever been at the Intersection of Ben While Blvd. and IH-35 during peak traffic periods, you might as well bring a book because you are going to be there for awhile. But, as we were out of time, I didn't get to really go into this, or the prospect for further tort reform, his take on Governor Bush's run for the Presidency, etc., etc. However, all in all, I got what I wanted from this interview and maybe at some time in the future, perhaps when he announces his next Mayoral, Senate(?), Governor's(?) race, I can go back and get the scoop on these and other issues.
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After meeting Kirk, I asked his Legal Assistant Irma Prado what he was really like and I received this reply:
"I feel privileged to work for Kirk. He is a brilliant lawyer. Watching him plan, prepare and argue a hearing or trial is truly fascinating. He is a perfectionist and works hard and expects those people around him to work hard. He has challenged me to rise above what I thought my capabilities were. I've learned a great deal from him and believe I am a better paralegal and a better person because I have worked for him and learned from him. Since he has become Mayor, we have obviously had to adjust the way we practice law. Depending on what's going on in a particular case, we usually set aside days during the week to review what needs to be done or what has been done. We practice law during lunch. Along with being extremely driven he is extremely funny. As most people know, he always has a story to tell. The only drawback to his stories is that after six years I've heard them a hundred times. Sometimes, I still laugh. He is a great person who really believes in doing the right thing. He has done great things for our clients and being a part of that makes my job worthwhile and fulfilling. Kirk is good person and a good friend."
So, now you have it, Kirk Watson, excellent attorney, non-partisan mayor, wonderful friend and an all around Good Guy.